Mar 15, 2014

March “Dimensional Brave Kaiser” Update

Update!As usual this is an update post to brief you all on site changes. TD-12 features the update. Click the read whole article link to see comments on Trial Deck. Warning: it’s a wall of text.

Updated this time:

Trial Deck 12, Dimensional Brave Kaiser I think is the one release to throw me for the largest loop. If you don’t want spoilers to how it went, you can read the update above in its entirety before continuing. In a horrible twist of fate, the one card I’ve spent months melodramatically crying out against for being a sacky piece of shit turned out to be a bit more complicated than that. If you look at it, it seems to go against every single established standard for what makes a “good card” in Vanguard. Critical in late game, sacky grade 3 check in late game for one turn, blah blah whatever. It’s a one-turn wonder that doesn’t affect the opponent except to weed out good players when they don’t deserve to, just like Horn Drill and other OHKO moves in Pokemon*; or so I used to think. (*OHKO moves at all lv 100 will hit 1/3 of the time. The probability of a grade 3 check is 1/3. Thus they’re comparable as both are One-Hit-Kills with low probability and thus making them horrible plays that cost good players game when they shouldn’t).

Of course I’m Alice, so I’m not only going to give even the worst deck a fair shot, I’m going to try and exploit it as much as possible. I found a horrible monster of a deck lurking under the surface; something that directly compares to existing decks…and the Tier standings changed.

Current Tier Standing

If you DO NOT KNOW the definition of each Tier according to this site, you NEED to read the March Update or the February Update to get yourself up to speed. You will not have any clue what I’m talking about and will make horribly wrong assumptions and then grill me on it unfairly. Just do us all a favor and read.

Tier 1

  • Narukami – Eradicator Dragonic Descendant
  • Dimension Police – Crazy Daikaiser
  • Shadow Paladin – Revengers / Raging Form-Mordred
  • Spike Brothers – Bad End Dragger-Emperor
  • Tachikaze – Aztechnos / Spinodriver-DarkRex
  • Kagero – Dauntless-End

In no particular order, anyway.

Tier 2

  • Aqua Force – Soft&Wet (Rush) / Transcore-GloryMaelstrom
  • Link Joker – Infinite-Schwarz/Star Platinum
  • Dark Irregulars – Dantalian-Master
  • Spike Brothers – Rush Blitz
  • Nova Grappler – SternBlau
  • Genesis – Iwanagahime-Himiko
  • Gold Paladin – Golden Experience

Again in no order. Stuff you totally noticed: Things are getting dropped off more (Genesis almost got knocked off the list entirely) due to the really lopsided nature of the tiers. Generally you have less Tier 1s than 2s, but it was getting higher and the Tier 2s couldn’t maintain the same ratios as before, bumping them off the list. Some of the decklist names changed (anything Tiered may have become a JoJo reference in addition to the existing ones). AND DAI FUCKING KAISER BECAME TIER 1. Holy shit. I spent months calling this card terrible and it goes and makes Tier 1 when I refine it into a list I’ve never seen before. It performed almost identical to Dragonic Descendant in math and in principle. It has a killer revenge with Daiyusha over it for 3 Critical early-kill before enough guard can even be obtained. It basically does everything people think Gauntlet Buster does (but doesn’t actually do). So this goes to show, everyone. No matter how strong you feel about a card or deck, in the end it always comes down to testing. I don’t give a crap who you are, what tournaments you’ve won, what experience you have, or what you just “know” has to be true; test it. If I can be 180 Degrees off target for 7 months, you can too. Enjoy your ever-growing ever-diversifying meta!


  • JamesAbbot says:

    I.. wha… *facepalm.. I’ve always admired your way of thought Alice, but this Tier list is Pojo level awful.

    • Tetsu Is Awesome says:

      Umm…how? Unless you’re going to tell us that Descendant, Revengers, and Dauntless End *can’t* beat the current meta down and hard. I don’t think you can argue against that.

      I don’t know if you think Bad End is bad or not like some people, but 5 attacks with 3-5 stages should be scary enough. Unless you had 4 PGs and 4 discard fodder *AND* 20k shielding in your hand (or can afford 1 damage, which you’ll still need 4 PGs and 4 discard fodder. Or 3 PGs and 3 discard fodder and a 20k shielding value.).

      Also, Spinodriver + Dark Rex achieves a quadra drive *plus* more hand advantage. You +4 from the draws and +4 from the double twin drive. That’s pretty damn good if you ask me, unless you never break rode Spinodriver with Spinodriver and superior rode with Dark Rex (you do the same thing in Revengers using Raging Form, except they do it better). Spinodriver and Dark Rex isn’t going to beat down the other decks in Tier 1 most of the times, but it stands a chance and decimates anything at Tier 2 and below.

      And if you’re wondering about Daikaiser…well, with 13 Grade 3s, you end up autowinning most of the time, especially with 12 crits. It’s not as good as Descendant, but it definitely is scary. Alice already explained Daikaiser in 5 paragraphs, so you can read it for a more fresh opinion. Before Alice’s testing, *all* of us, including Alice, thought Daikaiser was bad.

      As for Tier 2…they’re tier 2.

      So why do you think this tier list is awful again? I should’ve asked that first, honestly…

    • Tetsu Is Awesome says:

      Also, before anyone talks about Chaos Breaker, remember, English meta.

    • Alice Alice says:

      Thanks for not substantiating what you said, and just dismissing countless hours of testing instead of showing evidence.

      • JamesAbbot says:

        You say hours of testing, with this do you mean you tested every deck under the sun?

      • Tetsu Is Awesome says:

        No. She didn’t test against Savage King, hybrid Nubatama, Lox ride chain, pure-megacolony Antlion Megablast (English Meta only), Vortex Dragon, and main deck Edel Rose. Ok, maybe she did test every deck under the sun, since these are six feet under.

        Where’s the link for the testing procedures again…

  • blaZofgold blaZofgold says:

    Is it just me, or did a LOT of contentious comments get deleted?

    Not that I think those were good, but I do admit reading them is rather educational…allows me to see both sides of the argument, both the evidence-backed and the dissenters.

    • Vulturius says:

      Were these dissenters fighting evidence with worthless opinion? That would probably be why they got removed. There was no argument. Just feels. Evidence and Math destroy feelings. Ha! In more ways than one, it seems.

    • Alice Alice says:

      What are you talking about? There are no deleted comments. Not that I’m aware of anyway. Sometimes I’ll set one to “spam” if it’s a duplicate just to get it out of the article, but I haven’t removed any. I suppose I’d remove stuff if there was hate speech or abuse but I haven’t done that either.

  • somemetaplayingdouchebag says:

    To confirm, the tier lists here are assuming an 11k defensive meta without crossrides being played in a way that grants 13k defense, yes?

    Your math is generally good, but I need to figure out if it holds true in the current tournament scene, which does have 13k defense and thus. Changes things.

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